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Is The Motorist Taxed Too Much?
May 21, 2018, 9:17am

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Motion And Heart Forum    :::: The Lounge ::::    Question Of The Week  ›  Is The Motorist Taxed Too Much? Moderators: PaulB, NeilT, MaXiNe, corky100
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NeilT
June 4, 2004, 8:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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If you are a car driver, then you will know how much tax in one form or another you have to pay.
A huge amount of tax on petrol, then we have road tax, Tax on a new car if you buy one, tax that is collected on your insurance, tax that is collected if you use a toll road.
Do Motorist pay too much tax?


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NeilT
June 4, 2004, 8:24pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Being a car driver, it seems that the motorist is a way to get more tax. The amount of tax that is paid in petrol, is like wild.
Even though the government say they want more use from public transport, for many people it does not work. To travel on public transport is expensive, unreliable,dirty and often over crowded.
I love it when I go to Germany, as the public transport that I have used has been top class and very, very reliable,and clean!  not cheap, but it does work.


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Paul B
June 4, 2004, 9:44pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I have to say that I have little problem with public transport - when it's running OK.

However, whenever something goes wrong (and I'm talking trains here) then it *really* goes wrong due to a failure in communication by the staff/management.

One of the favourite tricks when weekend engineering works are in force is to divert trains on my normal line to a different main London terminal and then shuttle trains from there into central London. They never, never, never flag this up on any signboard and there's been many a time I've been stood on London Bridge station looking at the monitors like a lemon waiting for an announcement.

I don't mind things going wrong, but please *tell* us when it's going wrong m'kay?


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MaXiNe
June 7, 2004, 6:20am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator


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I think that motorsists are taxed FAR too much.

I work - currently - ten miles from home, after I get married, it will be 31 miles from home (making a 62 mile round trip per day)

I think I will have to consider giving up my job here because any money that we may have spare will go on running the car - and as I'm not that happy in my job I will REALLY begrudge spending extra cash to get here (plus extra hours as well......)

And as for the public transport where I live..... (well, you have to laugh, otherwise you'd bloody )


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Duncan
June 11, 2004, 7:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Are motorists taxed too much - NO!

For the last two years I've had to do a 70 mile round trip - cost me about £20-22 in diesel a week - not really different from public transport costs, plus it gave me the advantage of the freedom to travel where I wanted to out of work hours.

You pays your money - you takes your choice.

As for Road tax - well it goes towards road building - no problem with that.

Fuel costs high?  should encourage better economy

If it wasnt on the fuel it would be on the income tax - end of story.
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NeilT
June 11, 2004, 7:26pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
If it wasnt on the fuel it would be on the income tax - end of story


you what?? 80% tax on income.... yea right


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Duncan
June 12, 2004, 11:32am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Neil - why do you continually show your lack of knowledge of the taxation system in the UK?

Its like the neanderthal fuel protesters a few years ago greedily holding the country to ransom - demanding cuts in fuel duty.  Many of these anyway in the farming business pay very considerably reduced levels of duty anyway - I think its referred to as "red diesel"

Fine - cut fuel duty, but how can the government cover the shortfall - by increasing taxes elsewhere.

80% tax on income - where did I say this?

Lets look at mainland Europe as a valid comparison - lower fuel duties than us, but higher VAT and higher income taxes.

I cannot understand the mentality of the motorist who bleats about fuel taxation - like the smoker who whinges about excise duties or the drinker about booze taxes.

If you want to drive, smoke or drink - then you have to expect to pay for it, and a tax on consumption is by far the fairest way of doing it.  If the duties werent there then the money would need to be raised elsewhere - probably by direct taxation.

How many times does it need to be repeated - the UK, by EU and OECD standards, is a LIGHTLY taxed country.  It may not feel that way when you fill up at the pump, but looking at the overall picture - which surely is the only way to make an objective assessment, the facts speak for themselves.
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NeilT
June 12, 2004, 7:19pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Neil - why do you continually show your lack of knowledge of the taxation system in the UK?
  if I had a lack of knowledge, I very much doubt that I would have run my own business for over 19 years?

The fuel protester had a point to make, and here in the UK we have the freedom to do such things, and while I may not agree with what they did, the did raise some points, that brought issues to the masses

Next you will be saying that many speed cameras that are on the roads are not tax collecting machines...

Quoted Text
As for Road tax - well it goes towards road building - no problem with that.
errr, no most of the road tax collected does not go on road building, it goes back to the Treasury, most road building is funded from your council tax..


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Duncan
June 12, 2004, 9:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Ē  if I had a lack of knowledge, I very much doubt that I would have run my own business for over 19 years"

er no Neil, having spent the last two years assisting typical small businessmen with tax issues, I can wholeheartedly say that success at business is not dependent in any way on understanding the tax system - except for the golden principle of paying in cash when you can get away with it!  Most of them were shockingly ignorant -  and not just about tax I might add!

"The fuel protester had a point to make, and here in the UK we have the freedom to do such things, and while I may not agree with what they did, the did raise some points, that brought issues to the masses"

except it was not informed debate - eg the farmers making out that they were paying full whack rather than reduced amounts, and the hauliers bleating about fuel costs as an excuse to cover dodgy businesses, as their 35 tonne trucks progressively grind the roads into dust.

All we had was "tabloid" debate...

"Next you will be saying that many speed cameras that are on the roads are not tax collecting machines... "

Sorry Neil, but again thats just rubbish. †There was a great TV programme on a year or so ago where they had some indignant anti speed camera campaigners point out their least favourite camera sights. †The programme makers then produced a road safety expert, who calmly and rationally pointed out the genuine safety reasons for having the cameras in that particular spot. †This showed the anti camera nutters in their true light, as a bunch of selfish whingers who wanted to drive at whatever speed they wanted regardless of the law and the consequences.

I'm in favour of speed cameras as they are currently used. †I'm no Angel- I speed on the motorway when I can get away with it, but the point is, we have speed limits, and if you dont want to keep to them and then get caught, dont bleat about it.

I have absolutely zero sympathy for anyone who gets done in a 40mph zone. †Generally there are very good reasons for not having a national speed limit on a road, and if there are cameras - which have warning signs, and you get flashed then you only have yourself to blame.

As for road tax - of course it doesnt cover the full cost of the road, but it is a genuine and very rare example of hypethecation (spelling?) in which the funds go towards the cost of the road. †I'd be interested to know however what proportion of road costs are covered by Council Tax - there is of course a huge difference in something being paid for by the local Council and actually being funded by the Council Tax. †Since the 1980s (IIRC) the proportion of local council funding has fallen more and more on grants from Central government as opposed to local rates/poll tax/council tax.
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NeilT
June 12, 2004, 10:25pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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2 years assisting   thats sums it up in one   As for running any business a good accountant is worth his/her weight in gold, not some one that "assist"

What you on about "not informed debate" I think the whole county was debating the fuel demos, and it was not just about truck drivers, the whole issue affects just about every business. I do not read the tabloids, well very rare, so where you keep going on about the tabloids is beyond me? You must read be a tabloid reader to know so much about them..

Agree with the reason why we should have speed cameras, very much so.. But we now have chief constables saying that where we have many of them is wrong.. and I think that they know a little more about this than you or I.. Come on, it is a well know fact, that many cameras are put up, not in accident zones, but where easy money can be made from them.. Also, as facts re the effect of speed cames is coming to light, it has now been proven, that in many cases, they are more of a danger than anything else..
Quoted Text
I have absolutely zero sympathy for anyone who gets done in a 40mph zone
mnnnn, have you noticed that many cameras are put bang on the line from a 50mph to a 40mph, and if you did not know an area, you are little more than easy prey.. How many times have you been in a un familiar area, and not got a clue what the speed zone is?? Oh hang on, you will know it all  

As for how much funding goes on to the roads from local council tax.. well who knows, as each council is run different....

Off topic a little, but my area "Trafford" run by Labour, all of a sudden started to do work on the roads around here, and we even had road sweepers out in force on the minor roads.. This had never been seen before.. and when I questioned it, the answer was, well we have the local elections coming up!! Guess what? Labour are no longer in control  


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Duncan
June 13, 2004, 12:42am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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As I'm not an accountant I can't comment - I just do their tax returns and advise them on tax planning - ie assisting.

With regard to speed cameras in areas you dont know - well common sense to me says that if you are on a road in an unknown area you keep your eyes peeled for repeater signs and if in doubt slow down.  

With regard to Trafford council - aside from the election inspired cleaning (surely an argument for monthly elections!) how was the council run under Labour?  and who has control now?  To a great degree these days, Councils have been neutered as so much of the expenditure is taken "in house" by Central Govt - look at Ken Livingstone - I recall The Guardian saying how he would become the "second most powerful man in Britain"... typical metropolitan hyperbole of course, but to be honest he's hardly in the news, and he's the mayor of London - I suspect that outside bus fares and traffic cones he doesnt really have much power.  Hardly likely to inspire big turn outs for local elections.
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TheAviator
March 16, 2007, 12:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I've resurrected this old question cos I just got my Road Tax renewal form.

IMHO we pay too much. It wouldn't be so bad if the monies collected were spent on roads & public transport.

Also there is the issue of those who don't pay road tax - those who evade it, vehicles registered outside UK etc.

IMO it would be fairer if the Tax Disc system was abolished and road tax was transferred onto fuel.
Then everybody driving in the UK would be paying cos they've got to buy fuel and drivers then pay tax in proportion to how much they use the road.
Then instead of displaying a Tax Disc it should become law that you have to display proof of insurance.
Displaying proof of insurance should also apply to any foreign vehicles on uk roads.

what do you think? Do you agree?


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Si_W
March 20, 2007, 10:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Of course the motorist is charged too much.  Only an idiot or one of those looney environmentalist car-hating freaks would argue otherwise.  For the amount of money that the motorist pays into the Treasury, we should have the best roads in the world.  

For the record, I take a bus to work.  I'm lucky as I work within a couple of miles of my home and the buses run virtually every ten minutes or so.  Not everyone is that lucky.  Working in Swindon 3-4 years ago, I worked about 20 miles away and worked irregular hours so I needed the car.  Of course, the other thing that people conveniently tend to forget is that this country is essentially a service economy now and therefore tourism is a major industry in this country in its own right.  Most attractions need an influx of coaches/cars in order to stay afloat.  

Are there people who use the car too much?  Of course.  Doesn't mean we should charge through the roof for it though.  It's almost as if Duncan believes that driving is akin to commiting a crime.  Let's just lock them all up and be done with it.

As to the tax revenue, well that's a problem for good ol' Gordon.  If he hadn't been such a twat in raising tax revenue on everything though we wouldn't have this problem.  He's caught in a catch 22 now.  Look at the anti-smoking laws that are coming.  They can't be too draconian as he'll lose all that lovely tax revenue, but he needs something to appease the anti-smoking lobby.  I know, lets cut their access to the NHS, then we can tax them and make them pay for medical treatment.  While we're at it, lets do the same to overweight people and people who have have more than the prescribed units of alcohol per night.  NHS crisis?  What NHS crisis?
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NeilT
March 21, 2007, 8:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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The other vital point that is missed, is the lack of reliable,safe,clean and affordable public transport... with out this in place we are all going to use our cars.
Also, have a think about this.... the goverment make a lot from road tax, and fuel duty... Now if we all drove cars  that did say 100 MPG think how much revenue would be lost Now... also think about congestion charges


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MJB
March 22, 2007, 7:05am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Neil, re: Public Transport. From where I now live to where I work the earliest I could get here on public transport is 09:30hrs - bit of a b'stard when I start work at 07:30hrs innit?

I HAVE to use my car - and, for the record, I hate driving but it's a necessary evil at the moment, but this bunch of washed out w@nkers always target the motorist first, then people who drink, eat or smoke.

You know, in years to come, people won't die of car accidents, alcoholism, obesity or smoke related illnesses...... they will all die of boredom... >


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NeilT
March 22, 2007, 9:37pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Well, I am on a transport commitee, and am doing my little bit to try and help make things better...


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MJB
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Chances are it won't affect where I live though Neil - and in that case, I have to keep using the car....


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March 27, 2007, 11:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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There is a great lack of alternative transport. Since Beeching raised his axe to the railways in the 60's and the bus services were privatised in the 80's people relied more and more on the car. Also the car enabled people to travel further for work, you might say 'its a victim of its own success'. Public services rely on demand to provide the supply. Hence we need to ban the use of motor cars and force people to use public transport. There will then be a great demand and as many of us are aware at present little supply. If you dont have a car you're limited as to where you can find employment. In the town where I live I'm certain over 50% travel outside to a place of work and likewise there is about the same amount who travel into the town for employment. Maybe every one should move to be near there work.

have to go got a meeting..


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GenaP
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Where to start!!!  

Hubby & I both work in fairly specialised legal areas, we can't just work for any old local firm, so we have to do an 80 mile round trip every day (tried living near work - too depressing).  For us to get the train it would cost about £9 in taxis to/from the station, £28 for our return train tickets & £2 return on the tram - £39 a day.  It would take the best part of 2 & 1/2 hours each way & we'd be limited to when the trains ran.  So we have to drive, pay tax, insurance, mot & parking & put up with the horrific depreciation on our car's value.  

The most annoying bit is seeing all these powerful people saying we've got to do something, then seeing the carnage caused by the Labour Party Conference in Manc city centre - dozens of big cars chauffeuring single passengers back & forward, often with police escorts, police vans, cars & bikes sitting with their engines idling over & diversions increasing the distance people have to travel & creating traffic hell - a clear case of "Do as we say, not as we do."  
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NeilT
March 28, 2007, 11:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Yup, this is where it is all wrong in the UK... When I go to Germany, the public transport is clean, affordable, on time and reliable.. Funny thing tho' with public transport in peak time you pay extra to sit in a over crowded train,bus,tram Mnnnnnnn
Look out for our late March leaflet found at http://www.traffordlibdems.org.uk/site/downloadplus.php?lng=en&catid=386


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March 29, 2007, 3:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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GenaP you are so damned right about those Labour politicians.

My wife went to Brighouse (near Halifax) for job interview. It tok her one hour in the car.
We looked at trains and it would cost £24 a day, she'd have to leave home at 6.30am to get there for 9am and would take just over 2 hours for return journey.
Also it involved 3 changes of train


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April 8, 2007, 10:54am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I walk to work cos it`s only across the road from where I live, which is great, but I like driving, and pay enough for the privilege, I think it`s crazy the way the motorist is being treated.
A couple of weeks ago, a woman was mugged, and had her handbag stolen, she left lying on the ground while the police were 200 yards up the road checking the tyres on a car they`d pulled over. My brother stayed with her, for 20 minutes while the police caried on with what they were doing..... when they got to where the woman was, they did`nt even ask in what direction the guy fled, and told the woman she should`nt hold out any hope of him being caught. maddness.  >



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The states have decided to do away with our car tax and in future we will pay more for fuel from the end of the year.  I think this is a great idea as there are those who drive around without paying for their car tax and getting away with it, but now there is no way out.  You drive your car, you need petrol and therefore they are getting their tax via that way.  


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NeilT
April 11, 2007, 12:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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The down side of this is that more people will drive with no insurance   Good in principle though


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April 18, 2007, 9:41am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from NeilT
The down side of this is that more people will drive with no insurance  


Then it should be a legal requirement to display proof of insurance



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NeilT
April 18, 2007, 9:59pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Soon all cars will go through a big brother check, even when driving..

Re insurance, this is vital...


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April 19, 2007, 11:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Did you see the article 'Speeding drivers not fined' on todays BBC news website today which stated half of drivers caught by speed cameras get off free.



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Quoted from GenaP

The most annoying bit is seeing all these powerful people saying we've got to do something, then seeing the carnage caused by the Labour Party Conference in Manc city centre - dozens of big cars chauffeuring single passengers back & forward, often with police escorts, police vans, cars & bikes sitting with their engines idling over & diversions increasing the distance people have to travel & creating traffic hell - a clear case of "Do as we say, not as we do."  



What else do we expect from our "glorious" Labour govt though?


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TheAviator
April 20, 2007, 12:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Labour ??? Judging by their policies I thought they were Tories!


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NeilT
April 20, 2007, 8:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Mnnn polotics  


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MJB
April 24, 2007, 5:25am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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That's your fave subject innit Neil?  


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NeilT
April 24, 2007, 7:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Nuff said


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MJB
April 25, 2007, 5:24am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Course Guv!  


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Elfi
April 29, 2007, 2:22pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from NeilT
Soon all cars will go through a big brother check, even when driving..

Re insurance, this is vital...



So does this not happen where you are yet?? happens here. The police run a check on your registration and get all those details from that..... I for one think it`s a good idea.



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NeilT
April 29, 2007, 10:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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There are road side camera that are set up to see if you have a valid tax disk... half way there


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MJB
April 30, 2007, 6:03am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thing is though, although they reckon you get an £80 fine if your tax disc is out of date - I know that this is not altogether true.


Someone I know used to work in a PO counter (where tax discs were sold) and was told by more than one customer that the DVLA don't generate the fines (as they had deliberately not renewed to see what happens (stupid if you ask me!!!)  - and the Police can't do anything with out of date tax discs (except report it to the DVLA) so bit pointless really....

If they threaten this, it should be done on every occasion regardless....


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Added a bit!
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TheAviator
April 30, 2007, 12:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Tis true the police can only report to DVLA, but they will then ask to see valid drivers licence,  insurance and if vehicle is over 3 years old an MOT


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Quoted Text
but they will then ask to see valid drivers licence,  insurance and if vehicle is over 3 years old an MOT
correct you get a "producer"


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Elfi
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I got a few of those.... and they would`nt believe I was as old as my DOB lol.   ( not that it`s old or anything)  



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MJB
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Quoted from TheAviator
Tis true the police can only report to DVLA, but they will then ask to see valid drivers licence,  insurance and if vehicle is over 3 years old an MOT



Not if the car is simply parked up - and no-one in it. They don't go door knocking for an out of date tax disc - and believe me, with my "past life" I KNOW this to be the case!!!!  


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Quoted from MJB
Not if the car is simply parked up - and no-one in it. They don't go door knocking for an out of date tax disc - and believe me, with my "past life" I KNOW this to be the case!!!!  

Sorry MJB missed your reply -
You need to give notice the vehicle is off the road. Last month 32 cars went to the crusher in Skem area because they were 'On the Queens highway' with out of date tax disc. The Police with DVLA rep knocked on owners doors to give them a last chance to buy a valid disc before their cars were towed.

I  came on this thread as I've just paid £1.02 / litre for unleaded petrol.  >


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Elfi
November 7, 2007, 4:07pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Over here they just clamp your car, then its collected in 3/5 days by a pick up lorry..... It happened to a guy who parked his car outside my house.... tho he was going to a house across the road.... nobody called to see who the car belonged to.  



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Lego man
November 7, 2007, 7:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Fuel is crap at the moment. £1.09 at services near me for diesel. As for car tax - £180 for my own car, luckily I dont need to tax the other one - so I drive round in that.
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nigel2568
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If you register with the site below, it sends you emails of the cheapest fuel in your area and lists the 5 cheapest service stations and price per litre.

http://www.petrolprices.com/



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Lego man
November 7, 2007, 8:05pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Thats cool to know - due to the amount of fuel I use. Cheers.
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Quoted Text
I  came on this thread as I've just paid £1.02 / litre  for unleaded petrol.  
The goverment can do something about this, the tax on fuel is something 85%

Our Bongo is very low MPG, but we can run veggie oil   But even this has gone up in the last couple of weeks as the supermarkets cotton on that it can be used as fuel.. We have been getting it for less than 60p a litre and run with a 30/40 mix of veggie oil and diesle


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Lego man
November 7, 2007, 8:39pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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And it doesnt damage the engine? Not even in the long term?
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NeilT
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And it doesnt damage the engine? Not even in the long term?
Nope, it is actually better than Diesel, not all engines can run on it, but a Bongo can   The Diesel engine was originally designed to run on Peanut Oil, I kid you not  


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Quoted from TheAviator
I  came on this thread as I've just paid £1.02 / litre for unleaded petrol.  >


I pay £1.08  




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Quoted Text
I pay £1.08
<<OUCH>>


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94.9p here, was 91.9 just over a week ago. (and I thought we were expensive)



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Lego man
November 8, 2007, 12:17am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I might get a bike.
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We do also have an electric bike  


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Quoted from NeilT
We do also have an electric bike  





how long is the extension lead?  


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Quoted Text
how long is the extension lead?
long enough to charge it up  


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MJB
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Quoted from TheAviator

I  came on this thread as I've just paid ÔŅĹ1.02 / litre for unleaded petrol.  >




And tonight, only because I HAD to fill up, I put ¬£10s worth in my car at 102.9p/ litre  > >


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MJB
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Quoted from nigel2568
If you register with the site below, it sends you emails of the cheapest fuel in your area and lists the 5 cheapest service stations and price per litre.

http://www.petrolprices.com/


Thanks for that Nigel, I signed up for that straight away!



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Elfi
November 10, 2007, 9:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from nigel2568
If you register with the site below, it sends you emails of the cheapest fuel in your area and lists the 5 cheapest service stations and price per litre.

http://www.petrolprices.com/



Says the highest price in my area is £1.04.... not true  





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MJB
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It was spot on for round here and where my parents live.


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omj
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Supermarkets still selling for under a £ a ltr round here - don'r all rush....


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But how much is diesle


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MJB
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Around here the same price as Unleaded in most garages, and some of them about 1p per litre more....


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Steph
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From the New Year the States are scrapping all vehicle tax and instead we will be paying extra on fuel - I think it's going to be an extra 21p per litre.  They are also thinking of all vehicle owners to display a disc to show that the car is insured now that you don't need to apply for tax there is no way to check quickly to see if you are legal.  Jersey has this scheme and it seems to work very well.

I'm all for it if it stops the cheaters out there.


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Motion And Heart Forum    :::: The Lounge ::::    Question Of The Week  ›  Is The Motorist Taxed Too Much?

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