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UK bottom of league for child wellbeing...
August 19, 2018, 8:50pm

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Motion And Heart Forum    :::: The Lounge ::::    Question Of The Week  ›  UK bottom of league for child wellbeing... Moderators: PaulB, NeilT, MaXiNe, corky100
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 UNICEF child welfare league - should we be bottom?
No (3 votes)
37.50%
Yes (2 votes)
25.00%
Don't know (2 votes)
25.00%
No view (1 votes)
12.50%
8 Votes Total Last vote February 26, 2007, 9:51pm by Elfi
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UK bottom of league for child wellbeing...  This thread currently has 6,606 views. Print Print Thread
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Sandra
February 16, 2007, 5:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Just came across this and was surprised...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_6350000/newsid_6359300/6359333.stm


Are things really that bad? Or are we just too money/work focussed to notice what's happening to our kids?  


Onwards and upwards...
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NeilT
February 16, 2007, 10:11pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Have seen this, and to be honest, I am not that suprised...
Just going to move this to the poll section.


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Sandra
February 17, 2007, 2:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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oops - wish I'd left the poll off now...  


Onwards and upwards...
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corky100
February 18, 2007, 12:54am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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This is what happens when we give everyone more 'rights' than they know what to do with.........

But, Just like the North/South divide, the government etc will still deny it, even though everyone knows it true.
And if they did admit it, they would pass the blame onto the public. Not that they ever passed the blame before.

Or am I just being sceptical? Sarcastic? Near the Knuckle....?




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suec
February 18, 2007, 1:15pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from corky100
Or am I just being sceptical? Sarcastic? Near the Knuckle....?


No spot on I think
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Sandra
February 18, 2007, 8:55pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Hmm... my recent experience in Wythenshawe was that the government sent in a little army of middle class do-gooders who understood nothing about the local problems of the families there, and then wondered why they can't reach the families intended to benefit...  


Onwards and upwards...
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TheAviator
February 19, 2007, 11:55am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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The innonence of childhood has been lost.
With the new technology we have, 24 hour tv, pop music promotion etc and so much info thrown at kids by the media most grow up too fast.
Also IMHO they lack pride in their national identity. Can the blame be laid at the door of the free loving Hippies of the 60's?
Certainly if all natural parents had to undergo the same process as foster parents then IMHO a good many wouldn't be allowed children.
But then, this may be down to the criteria in the fostering process being flawed to begin with.

There is also a surprising amount of child poverty in this country.
The Government is failing to tackle it effectively.
Charities are doing a far better job, but they suffer in finding funding.

Personal experience for me is that the charity Home-Start provide excellent service to families with a child under 5. Instead of providing financial support to this charity the Govenment set up Sure-Start, giving it M's,which targeted specific areas of social deprivation and is know replicating those services offered by Home-Start.
I've heard on the grapevine that one aim of Sure Start childrens centres is to get young mums back into employment.  


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corky100
February 19, 2007, 8:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I am working with Surestart centres, and looking to involve with Single-parent families with a view to getting work onto their agenda. In my experience Surestart can make a big difference, but only when the so-called 'deprived' area is correctly identified. Dave you got it spot on with the middle classes army of do gooders. How can a have possibly know what its like to have not? I have been in both positions, and find it hard to convese with such people (who incidentally are responsible for dishing out the funding too) and fail to understand why so many obviously unattainable targets are set as a proviso to recieve said funding.

I am on the frontline so to speak of supplying such a service, and its very unnerving to see where the funding is directed, and the so called 'deprived' recipients...




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Sandra
February 19, 2007, 11:12pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Surestart do some good things but do starve independent local initialtives of funding, as Dave says, and often fail to reach the most needy. I feel much more would have been achieved if they had worked with the local communities more, and also had more of a clue how the local economy actually works!! The have-nots need to be much more savvy about making a little go a long way and how to get things done...

I have at various times mixed with the well off and the worst off, so can relate to what you say, Corky. The "haves" just don't get it half the time...  

As for Surestart's hidden agenda, Dave, the biggest problem to me is the one that says all kids should be in full time nursery places by three, which flies in the face of my own experinces of dealing with a very distressed daughter who only ever wanted to be full time with mum until she was five and a half... yet I was put under constant pressure to leave her here, there and everywhere, as if that would somehow make her feel more secure  


Onwards and upwards...
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NeilT
February 19, 2007, 11:41pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Cant say to much here, due to my postion, but do keep you thoughts flying.. I am listening...


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nigel2568
February 20, 2007, 12:21am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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My feelings about the Nursery School issue, is that until a child is of school age the Government should have NO SAY in the schooling of that child. I have seen time and again that the mother (or resident parent) knows their "baby"better than anybody else, whether it be a doctor or politician. The parent will know when their child is ready for nursery without traumatising the child.

I understand that people are saying that nursery will give a child a better start, I disagree. A happy loving homelife gives a child a better start than forcing a child into a nursery when they are not ready.

Rant Over.



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MJB
February 20, 2007, 7:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I voted yes, that the UK should be bottom because the decline in this country in the last ten years alone is deplorable; and what the study said all made sense, child poverty, teenage pregancies, underage drinking etc etc

I bet when other countries see our news and see females (not to mention males) sprawled on the roadside outside pubs/clubs vomiting, showing their dirty laundry etc, they must think that Britain has much to be proud of.

People keep keep telling me things will go full circle, but I can't see it happening in this lifetime.

And this government only make it worse.... their priority - stuffing the motorist - everything else can wait..

Get real Mr Blair, the young are the future of this country, and looking at the majority of todays youth, we haven't got a very good future to look towards.... sad, but true...

There are some fabulous youngsters around I agree; but sadly the minority rather than the majority....


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nigel2568
February 20, 2007, 8:39am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from MJB
I voted yes, that the UK should be bottom because the decline in this country in the last ten years alone is deplorable; and what the study said all made sense, child poverty, teenage pregancies, underage drinking etc etc

I bet when other countries see our news and see females (not to mention males) sprawled on the roadside outside pubs/clubs vomiting, showing their dirty laundry etc, they must think that Britain has much to be proud of.

People keep keep telling me things will go full circle, but I can't see it happening in this lifetime.

And this government only make it worse.... their priority - stuffing the motorist - everything else can wait..

Get real Mr Blair, the young are the future of this country, and looking at the majority of todays youth, we haven't got a very good future to look towards.... sad, but true...

There are some fabulous youngsters around I agree; but sadly the minority rather than the majority....


Sad but true I'm afraid. I 'm ashamed to admit I agree totally Maxine.  



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TheAviator
February 21, 2007, 1:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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There are a lot of staff who are part of Surestart and do a great job but Surestart being a Government initiative is target driven.
How do they measure the holistic wellbeing of people they are offering support to?
The services Surestart offer are excellent but are they reaching all those they are targetting?
You need to be sure you can get through to the 'hard to reach' and socially excluded families.
The hard to reach families need a lot of time spent on them to coax them into partaking socially.

The Childrens Centres and Surestart are meant to be part of strategy to provide multi-agency working rolling out services to all families.
Unfortunately in my local area a Surestart manager had a personality clash with a Home Start manager.
The result was Sure-Start started replicating Home Start service in two communities.
Also unless it gets more funding before June, Home Start will close, losing over 40 volunteers supporting almost 70 families and running 3 parent / toddler drop-ins
Some of these families are the hard to reach and are wary of Sure-start as they distrust Government & associations with Social Services.

My goodness I have so much I can say but will stop prattling on at the moment...

MJB said 'There are some fabulous youngsters around I agree; but sadly the minority rather than the majority....'

Sorry but IMHO the fab young ones are the majority, its just that the media prefers to take more notice of the minority







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NeilT
February 22, 2007, 12:36am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
Sorry but IMHO the fab young ones are the majority, its just that the media prefers to take more notice of the minority
I am not going to do a politacal stance on this but most kids are just fine. As we have 24/7 TV news/media/press it all gets thrown in your face. I do not what TV, apart from the BBC news if I get chance, I do not read ANY newspaper apart from my own local one, as new papers are just a grown up comic, with a politiacal swing.. all a waste of time.
Children services, and other "smaller" issues are often not seen to be a vote catcher.. Elderly people, those with learning disabilities, that that need respite re care, are just lost out... Some of us, do care, and some of us, ware working for the people of this land.


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MJB
February 22, 2007, 7:23am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from TheAviator

MJB said 'There are some fabulous youngsters around I agree; but sadly the minority rather than the majority....'

Sorry but IMHO the fab young ones are the majority, its just that the media prefers to take more notice of the minority



The Aviator - you are priviledged and VERY lucky to be able to have that opinion.  

IMHO it is certainly not the case in the towns that I have lived in. I don't take any notice of the media, I look out of my own front and back doors. I know elderly people who are terrified by the scum hanging around their houses morning, noon and night 'terrorising' them because they are too frail to fight back. I know very young children who daren't go out to play (in broad daylight) because the "youths" terrorise them. Maybe it depends on the areas that you live, but where I live now, and where I used to live, both used to be wonderful places - not any more....  

So I stand by my "own" opinion that this study was correct, and that we deserve the bottom placing!  




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Love42
February 22, 2007, 8:29am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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TheAviator
February 22, 2007, 12:31pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Where I live

Skelmersdale

we have it all,
a socially deprived area,
underage drinking outside shops,
drug users and dealers,
muggers, vandals, car thieves,

see for yourself at (copy and paste)  //icseftonandwestlancs.icnetwork.co.uk/icskelmersdale/

but its not all bad and yet it seems at times its getting worse...

lack of repect and consideration is what the youth have regarding other people particularly their elders  


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Sandra
February 22, 2007, 9:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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The sad thing is that a lot of the bad behaviour is learned...

I am lucky to work with under threes in a deprived area and I am always amazed at how much difference even one session a week at such a young age can make. A little nurturing seems to go a long way then, but many kids have not been lucky enough to experience caring adults at all, and as teenagers they will just lash out at anyone - then we are all losers...  


Onwards and upwards...
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corky100
February 22, 2007, 9:50pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I've seen it all from the thin edge of the wedge, as most of you are aware, and it can leave a bitter taste in the mouth. But yet I work in an environment where I potentially help people in this bracket, although obviously not the gangster types, they just aren't interested. But to stay on topic, I encounter a terrible range of numeracy and literacy levels, and to me it seems to be ever increasing in youngsters. I see on an almost daily basis teenagers that can't even tell the time for example, a terrible state of affaris that does depress you, especially as it appears that no one actually cares that they can't. Would you employ someone who can't tell the time or even spell through bad, or lacking education?

Its about time the government and powers that can influence decisions based on economy and regional deprivation realised that areas where organisations scream out for money to tackle problems like city centre eyesores, improvement of shopping facilities and community centres and new business complexes are very nice, but they aren't going to stop the country rolling into decline. Basically a government that can admit it doesn't have a clue how to tackle the educational standards problem, so leaves it to other people to deal with, making the problem worse. Liverpool area as far as i can make out has a very high level of workforce that are actually brought in from outside the region. That includes europe.

In 20 years time this will catch up with us big style.




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Si_W
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Well a good start would be a real tightening up of the benefit system to encourage people to work by making them doing proper community service in order to receive benefits in the first place.  Shouldn't expect anything for nothing.  That in itself would encourage some people to get off their backsides and either get the help they need to get educated or to get a job.

Community service could imho be either through volunteering for a charity or some council driven initiative like litter sweeps, graffiti removal or something similar.
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MJB
February 23, 2007, 7:18am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Si_W
Well a good start would be a real tightening up of the benefit system to encourage people to work by making them doing proper community service in order to receive benefits in the first place.  Shouldn't expect anything for nothing.  That in itself would encourage some people to get off their backsides and either get the help they need to get educated or to get a job.

Community service could imho be either through volunteering for a charity or some council driven initiative like litter sweeps, graffiti removal or something similar.


Fantastic point Si_W , and absolutely 100% right.

We have a neighbour, who, whilst being a lovely girl, is a 21 year old single mother without a job (and has never had one as she was pregnant at 17) or partner, yet has Sky TV, a landline, a mobile, leather sofas, wide screen TV and a car which she goes out in between 1-20 odd times a day. She must be absolutely rolling in benefits, whilst we are struggling to run two essential cars (I travel 50miles a day for work, and Hubby is an architect and therefore has to do site visits) and the whole cost of running a home without any handouts or any help from anyone....!!

But once again, aren't we back to the do-gooders and the crap government who are too spineless to do anything about it for fear of losing votes, or 'damaging' the scroungers 'human rights'  > > > >



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TheAviator
February 23, 2007, 12:18pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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agreement from me with Sandra,Corky,  Si_W and MJB on their writings.

Long term 'inactive' (not working) should be told 'if you wish to keep claiming benefit then
you have to partake in _ _ _ _ _ whatever it may be - community service, charity work with a minimum of hours done.
That way they will be of value to the society they are part of and would no longer be seen by workers as parasites on benefits.

My sister in law (age 32) is a single mum (for 12 years now) and has always been in employment (part time initially).
She struggled at times with childcare but had an attitude of earning a living for her own self esteem if nothing else.

Sandra was correct about bad behaviour being learned and how children can do well with a little nurturing.
My wife is NNEB nursery nurse and until a few years ago always worked in the nursery / reception class.
Two annual intakes of children from age 3 onwards and at that early age she could identify (after a couple of months)which children could do well and become 'good citizens' and those who would fail society.
My wife,  IMHO, did a lot in raising standards of education in that school because she was determined that all the children before moving on from her class would be able to write their own name, have basic english and numeracy skills, be able to sit and listen and pay attention in class. She also applied a holistic approach that learning was fun and that the children should be able to play as much as sit and learn. She believes children learn a lot from socialising and communicating.
My wife came home sometimes with some horror stories and at other times wonderful stories.
The wheel of life needs to be broken so that these young children learn what values in life are right and wrong / good and bad / acceptable / unacceptable.
A major problem today is there is a lack of pride / self esteem and little respect for others.
But we have to hope that each of us enlightened people can help to make this world a little better and hopefully stop the rot from blighting everything.

  




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Sandra
February 23, 2007, 9:08pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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I can only agree with all the points above. Thanks for all your thoughts, guys.  
I can add that the time I spent on benefits I found demoralising and uncomfortable, having worked all my life before becoming a mum. As soon as I could, I started working part time and the little I earned for myself meant far more to me than the hand-outs, even though they were necessary at the time and got me out of a pretty nasty situation...


Onwards and upwards...
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Elfi
February 26, 2007, 10:00pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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The Benefits system, IMHO, started off as a great idea, but had to attract it`s abusers.

I know there are a hell of a lot of spongers, but there are also genuine cases as well.

And I don`t believe that everyone who has ever been on benefits, have no morals, or that they let their children run amok. And there has been millions of pounds unclaimed this year alone, in benefits.... due to people who don`t know they are entitled, whats the government going to do about this. Or the millions in unclaimed old age pensions, cos pensioners don`t know they`re entitled or are frightened of the forms they have to complete. There`s no-one in the government kicking up a stink about this.... and making sure that pensioners have the money that they are entitled to.



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Si_W
February 27, 2007, 6:34pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Elfi
The Benefits system, IMHO, started off as a great idea, but had to attract it`s abusers.

I know there are a hell of a lot of spongers, but there are also genuine cases as well.

And I don`t believe that everyone who has ever been on benefits, have no morals, or that they let their children run amok. And there has been millions of pounds unclaimed this year alone, in benefits.... due to people who don`t know they are entitled, whats the government going to do about this. Or the millions in unclaimed old age pensions, cos pensioners don`t know they`re entitled or are frightened of the forms they have to complete. There`s no-one in the government kicking up a stink about this.... and making sure that pensioners have the money that they are entitled to.


There's always genuine cases, that's a given.

As to the latter point, no-one in Government is going to kick up a stink because that's effectively going to raise the amount of public money being given to people.  The rules set are that you have to apply and it's made as hard for you as it can be.  In some cases that's fair, in others such as those that affect pensioners it's not.

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Elfi
February 27, 2007, 11:20pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Too true.

Never could understand tho, how it is that parents who work, are with their kids less, yet the scroungers don`t work, so have more time to spend with theirs... yet teach them next to nothing.  

Don`t want to sound old lol, but when I was a kid, we addressed adults as Mr or Mrs ( whatever their surname was), now tho, kids as young as 8 are stopping you in the street, saying " yo, have ya gota light".  



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corky100
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Thats some Polite kids you got over there then, Elfi!!

Ours here aren't even legible




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MJB
May 15, 2007, 5:07am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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When I got home from work yesterday, some little w@nker scratched my car - RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME; but I didn't dare challenge the little sh1t because he had a very large knife in his hand (AND in school uniform).

Called the Police, what did they say?

"We can't do anything because you don't know who the offender was. We can give you a crime number for your insurance if you need it though"


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corky100
May 15, 2007, 10:27pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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buy a catapult for these sort of times.,....


Just picture it now, 'Hard' schoolkid explaining to a copper that he was just whacked by a loony with a catapult. They'd choke on their Pizza!!  




I am all the things I regret


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Elfi
May 16, 2007, 2:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Brilliant!!! lol.  



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MJB
May 29, 2007, 5:10am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from corky100
buy a catapult for these sort of times.,....


Just picture it now, 'Hard' schoolkid explaining to a copper that he was just whacked by a loony with a catapult. They'd choke on their Pizza!!  


I would, only if I could fire hand grenades out of it.....



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