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Free Heroin on the NHS. Good Idea or pandering?
August 20, 2018, 11:22am

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Motion And Heart Forum    :::: The Lounge ::::    Question Of The Week  ›  Free Heroin on the NHS. Good Idea or pandering? Moderators: PaulB, NeilT, MaXiNe, corky100
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Free Heroin on the NHS. Good Idea or pandering?  This thread currently has 5,243 views. Print Print Thread
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corky100
November 20, 2007, 2:13am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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A small core of hardened heroin addicts are being supplied with the drug as part of a government backed experiment to help them get clean.

The addicts take the drugs under the supervision of a dedicated team of nurses and clinicians in a special but simply furnished room.

This controversial experiment aims to help some of the most difficult addicts in the country rebuild their lives by giving them the drugs they crave, for free.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7099138.stm


A good idea or pandering to the criminal element and wasting NHS funds?




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AirSynths
November 20, 2007, 7:37am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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But how does giving them the drug help them get clean????  

While I can see the benefits to society of giving it to them for free - tackling robberies for example - I'm really not too sure if this is such a good idea. I presume that this is an acknowledgement that methadone isn't working in all cases? Seems a bit of an odd way to treat it if you ask me. Obviously something has to be done, but the other question is, when they get clean does it last?

And let's face it, the NHS is over-burdened as it is!


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MJB
November 20, 2007, 8:50am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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One Word.





Boll@cks. > > > > >








There are people dying from cancer because their NHS won't fund their treatment, and yet they are going to give junkies (self inflicted damage and all that...) drugs... Yup! The world HAS gone totally, totally mental....


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AirSynths
November 20, 2007, 1:32pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Told hubby about this... he said:

"Shoot 'em or give 'em 100% pure so they OD, then they won't be a burden to anyone."


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omj
November 20, 2007, 5:09pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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If you get addicted to tranquilisers, anti-depressants or alcohol, the doctor does not make you come off cold turkey, whether it is your "fault" or not you got onto them - the dosage is gradually reduced and controlled, to avoid further medical problems. I don't see why illegal drugs are any different. If that's what it takes to get you CLEAN and OFF, so be it. It's just treatment.


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MJB
November 20, 2007, 5:42pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Cannot agree with you there omj; but won't say any more than that ...... this really could get me in my soap box rant mode; but I shall just slam the door on the way out!!!!  


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NeilT
November 20, 2007, 8:01pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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This is a good idea... ANY additiction is a problem, but a soon as you mention "Drugs" it sends some into a rant. Yes we have lots of areas that do not have enough funding.

If you want to stop smoking the treatment is funded by the NHS is there a difference between this?


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AirSynths
November 20, 2007, 8:10pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Ahhh.. but hubby would take issue with that, as our doctor won't put him on an NHS treatment to help him stop smoking. He also got a bit narked that the son of a friend of ours was put on 'the sick' and underwent NHS treatment to beat his alcoholism. That said, it did the trick and he's really turned himself around since completing the treatment.

Bascially hubby 't see why 'we' should pay to fix people's addiction - particularly as he can't get help with his own

It also doesn't help that a few years back we were the victims of drug related crime on a number of occassions, and all we ever seemed to hear at the time was 'pity the poor druggie, they can't help it' - the police even told us that if they received a complaint from the gits about my dog biting them then she would have to be put down! For doing her job and protecting her home and family! Well, what about the invasion of my home? The number of times we had to have the windows on the car replaced? etc... etc... etc...

Personally I can see both sides to the argument. If it works and the addicts become fully functioning members of society and stay off drugs for the rest of their lives, great. But I have my doubts.


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corky100
November 20, 2007, 8:13pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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No matter how desperate I get, I never got the urge to go out and mug, maim or kill for my next fix. The victims are usually second person (passive smoking is still unproven anyway).

Now its Kids getting that 'shoot each other' treatment in the name of Drugs, and the states response? Waste money on em. Thats not the way, and the success rate (for every 15000 spent) is very low to justify it. I'm all for a good sensible solution if it brings large numbers off the street, cures them, and reduces crime. This alone aint the way.

I could go on, but my addiction is also self inflicted, Legal, and is now frowned upon more now than Heroin and other Class A's. Is that right?




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MJB
November 20, 2007, 8:16pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from NeilT

If you want to stop smoking the treatment is funded by the NHS is there a difference between this?



Yes, because smoking isn't illegal....or funded (generally) by stealing/other crime  >


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AirSynths
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Quoted from corky100
<snip> my addiction is also self inflicted, Legal, and is now frowned upon more now than Heroin and other Class A's. Is that right?


That's a good point too. One of the reasons I am sick to death of hearing about Amy bloody Winehouse is because I really don't think she's a particularly good role model for 'the kids'. ffs, look at the state of her! I mean, what is cool about that? Is it really right that society just 'tut tut's about what she's doing to herself and the effect it's having on her family, while rushing out to buy the latest salacious magazine with all the sordid gossip and the photos etc? (something else I can't stand!) And yet if someone lights up a fag they are treated like scum. wtf? I'd rather my hubby be addicted to fags and booze than Class A drugs!

It's probably a good job I don't have kids, because I'm sure I'd take a very dim view of them being fans of any drug using bands/singers etc. Yes, of course they'd have the ammo to come back at me for the state that Duran Duran were in throughout most of the 80s... *thinks about the Saturday Superstore appearance of John Taylor* But the difference is that I didn't know what was going on, and only actually found out about the drugs in the late 90s, and I was pretty disgusted then. It certainly wouldn't have encouraged me to go out and take drugs.

But maybe I'm odd. I confess, I smoked a joint once, but it had no effect on me, and I actually hated being at gigs where some of the audience was partaking as the smell of it made me feel really sick! I just never saw the point in it! Still don't! That's probably why I'm only addicted to Music, Cola, Crisps and Chocolate

(falls off of soap box)


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NeilT
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Quoted Text
Yes, because smoking isn't illegal....or funded (generally) by stealing/other crime
Exactly , so if a addict (of any form) seeks help, they have taken a step forward, which has to be a good thing. There are as many people addicted to ciggies and booze, who have help available.

Also if a doctor does not offer help with addiction/s it is time to see another doctor.


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Elfi
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Quoted from corky100
A small core of hardened heroin addicts are being supplied with the drug as part of a government backed experiment to help them get clean.

The addicts take the drugs under the supervision of a dedicated team of nurses and clinicians in a special but simply furnished room.

This controversial experiment aims to help some of the most difficult addicts in the country rebuild their lives by giving them the drugs they crave, for free.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7099138.stm


A good idea or pandering to the criminal element and wasting NHS funds?



I think thats scandalous and down right outrageous..... when theres people suffering from Cancer, to mention just one illness.... and theyre having to remortgage their homes to get the drugs they need, to hopefully, prolong their lives  >



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Elfi
November 20, 2007, 11:17pm Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from NeilT
Exactly , so if a addict (of any form) seeks help, they have taken a step forward, which has to be a good thing. There are as many people addicted to ciggies and booze, who have help available.

Also if a doctor does not offer help with addiction/s it is time to see another doctor.


Wonder how many are seeking help.... cos they get their `fix` free tho. Seems like a dream come true for addicts.... IMO  




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omj
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I doubt it would be enough to give them their regular 'high' - it would just be enough to make them feel normal and address their other problems - this is the approach with other addictions. Obviously you have to stop them taking their street supply as well.

When my brother was once in hospital, there was a young guy who had damaged his liver with alcohol, who was being given a bottle of ale with his dinner each night. You may be shocked, but this was an essential part of his treatment, to come off gradually.

Heroin is evil stuff, and untimately young people have to have it drilled in what it will do if they get addicted - same with alcohol, prevention is better than cure. If you ever get treated with morphine (legal heroin) see how carefully it's handled, to prevent addiction.


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MJB
November 21, 2007, 7:47am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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Quoted from omj

Heroin is evil stuff, and untimately young people have to have it drilled in what it will do if they get addicted



And, of course, all the junkies will take soooooooooooooo much notice of that....


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AirSynths
November 21, 2007, 11:38am Report to Moderator Report to Moderator

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omj, I have a rather personal reason I get mad at some treatments for alcoholics, and it's can be the radical treatment for liver damage that really pisses me off.

I was absolutely livid when George Best was given a liver transplant because he'd fooked his own up with alcohol. Only a few years before my mum had died of liver cancer. Within about 20 days of diagnosis. Admitedly it was secondary, but they never even bothered to try and find out where the primary was because her liver was too fooked to treat, so they just left her to die. How can that be right? or fair?

Unfortunately as much as we can try and drill it in to the kids heads what a bad thing drugs, and heroin in particular, are there's a certain cool factor to the being anti-establishment and law breaking. And if certain pop stars and other people in the media eye are percieved to be cool and have an addiction then that's only gong to add to the view that it's ok. What's worrying is the number of addicts who say they started and thought they could control it! How???  


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corky100
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Thats my point. They know what it does. They know what it leads too. None of these kids are clueless.

Then when the mess finally aims their way, they expect )often demand) society to deal with it, then pick up the tab.

So go ahead, grow our own drugs, give it to kids, control their self inflicted addiction,.

Then, if it ever does get them off it, present them with the Bill (Works that way for students when it comes to grants/loans, does it not?)

which they will pay with the earnings from the jobs they will no doubt get....

...Oh mess, they forgot. They will end up alone and jobless (but sober) once they are cured. Whatever will they do with themselves now? I wonder...




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NeilT
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Interesting that there is the word "Cancer" used a lot here, and also under funding? Just to pull some of you in to the world of reality, much of the research into cancer has to be done by begging, the same if you are blind and want a guide dog, or if you are a young child and you need a help line to call in a moment of crisis, it is all funded by beggars out on the street?

A waste of money? is the same true for fertility treatment? non life threatening, and the money could be used else where? What about a hip replacemnet, in someone in there 80's is this wise, or should the money be spent else where.

Maxine, if you do get a job inside a prison, you will be educated.

Oh, and if you should get a STD, you should die of it, cos you slept around.

There is a big problem with the word "Drugs" and this makes and drug taker a "Junkie" sorry, but if you believe that, you really should take a walk in the real life, and stop reading tabloids.


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I lived amongst them Neil. They deserve the bad press. We ain't talking painkillers or sleeping pills. We are talking problem people, who chose that life. We don't chose a faulty hip or STD, it just happens. The risk is always there.

But these people know the effects. Thats the difference. I seen it with my own eyes. I resent my tax paying for that when I can't even get my bin emptied!!

Yes something should be done to help them, but this countries overpaid thinktanks are incapable of seeing a 'sensible' how.




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NeilT
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If your bin is not being emptied, that another thing, and another way that things are funded.. nothing at all to do with the NHS

Quoted Text
I lived amongst them Neil.
Thats good, as you can see, first hand the problem in your area, but what about the rest of the country? yes there are "junkies" those that are just going to lose out on life. But I am talking about those that have made a mistake, realise it, and want to get back to a normal life. Have we not all made a mistake in our lives and then wanted help, just because some one made a mistake and went down the <DRUG> route, but then held there hand up and said, "I made a mistake" should they not get help? it could happen to your child, or someone that you love and know, do you just say "Hey junkie, DIE"

Life is far to short to do that, and if you are not prepared to give a living person a second chance, when they have made a error, that for me, is really sad. I as an individual, have utter respect for any fellow human, and to be able to help someone, in a life or death situ, I for one one like to help them, and not put them in a grave.

Every male and female on this planet are someones sibling, and I know for sure how I feel.  


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Been thinking about this... and youre right Neil.... of course you are... when people realise theyve made a mistake, and are genuinely seeking help... help should be there for them.... wish there were more people who had your mind set   Still doesnt take away from the fact that priorities are all wrong, when it comes to where the money is spent... and on what treatment people receive. I know you agree with that too.  



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So many things in life are just plain and simple wrong, part of the reason why I got involved in politics. I am dealing with a case at the moment, and will not go into details. But this person was forced by the court of law on a technical not to make a plea of guilty at a Crown Court Case, he is now branded as a criminal but he made a simple error in filling in a form wrong after suffering a life threatening stroke. Everyone knows that this should never have gone to court, but with great saddnest, this person is now paying a very heavy price for his conviction. I am doing everything that I can to resolve this, but it is hard going and very frustrating. This person IS NOT and I say again this person IS NOT a criminal. But Muppet's read the tabloids and believe what the gutter press right..

The public at large should hang there heads in shame, for being a part of the media hype.. Grim.  


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To be fair the public only have the news they are given to go on. Its up to people like yourself (or others that know) to make sure that the real story is revealed sometimes when relevent...




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Yet again.... good on ya Neil..... wish there were more in the world like you. Really mean that.  



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NeilT
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With out going into detail, I spoke at a large council meeting this week, about a subject, and the leader of the controlling group, agreed with me!!! Mark my words this is just not normal.

Am also at another large public meeting tomorrow night, and will be speaking up for the everyday people so to speak, sort of what I am saying, is that some of us involved in politics, really do care.


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We`ve known for a long time that YOU care Neil..... hope there`ll be more there who feel like you do. And hope youre successful with this court battle.  



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